SANParks.org Forums

Thank you for clearing this up!
The owners of these sites again contacted me via my Flickr stream ….asking me permission to use my photos. The photos they referred to were others than the ones they initially took of the forum (most of those ones were marked as private on my Flickr stream and thus not visible to the others…except on the forum). I do not think they realized that I was previously one of their “victims”.
My response was that they are not, under any circumstances, allowed to use my photo….and I will check their websites to make sure they do not use my photos.

Just to clarify another point…if one donate your photos to these people, without taking payment….it appears that you will still have to pay SANParks for the commercial rights..is that right? If so, people should really keep this in mind when receiving requests for the use of their photos….you might think you are doing a good deed but might end up with a bill to pay for your generosity.

Great!


Quite right. In any instance where the images are being used for commercial purposes it is a legal requirement that the entity that took the pics pays the fees upfront. So if you are not sure what the recipient of the pics will be doing with them, rather do not donate.

The "See images on right" looks a bit odd now.

Thanks Nedret!! URLs are saved and I will definitely check what happens there.
For Flickr users….the person who contacted me used the username AJGrob…I advice you to “block” this person on your stream



All their SANParks pages looks quite silly now….and those with photos looks quite drab IMHO

Best to start a new topic for this I think, so see here:- New topic: a project?

I have again, on Flickr, been approached by the Krugerpark.com people, asking me for permission to use my photos of Mosu and Tshugulu lodge on their website….I’m posting this here and going to reply to their request with a link to this topic.

To Muntasir of Krugerpark.com…please read through this topic and especially give attention to the replies from SANParks….if I donate my photos to you, I’m liable for the fees payable to SANParks because you are using them for commercial purposes. One would have thought that after this whole issue, you learned your lesson and acquainted yourselves with the policies of SANParks…either you are just stupid or seriously devious. I believe SANParks should investigate the photos that now has been placed on their website…if the appropriate fees has been paid for them…and I honestly think SANParks should rethink their relationship with this company.

PS: Flickr users, block the following person from accessing your stream.
Mun13

Hi everybody

Wow, I had no idea we had such a poor reputation amongst forum members Reading this whole thread has been grueling, but I am glad I did.

I must apologise for what has transpired regarding all the pictures in the past. I wish I had seen this forum thread when this was all taking place in July. Frankly, my skills are with web development and, over the years of marketing SANParks products, I have learnt numerous things the hard way through stupid mistakes.

Just to clarify a few things:

* We do indeed operate Accommodation Direct and KrugerPark.com
* After I was notified of the image issues I personally removed every single picture on both KrugerPark.com and all AD websites
* We subsequently sent a staff member up to the Kruger Park as well as along the Garden Route to take pictures and I travelled to Golden Gate to take some pictures
* Any other pictures we have been explicitly granted permission to use
* Muntasir was asked to find images for our sites, but strictly in accordance with what we thought to be legal and ethical, we will never use another image without permission again

I know the concensus is that we are troglodytes who have never actually been to the park before, but this is not true. Myself and our staff have all been on tour operator tours and most have travelled to the park in their personal capacity. Without sounding cheesy, I personally take my mother to a different SANParks restcamp every Oct/Nov and I am very proud of having such fantastic places available to go on holiday. If I had my way, I would probably move to WIlderness and operate from a log cabin!

All I can do is apologise again and promise our commitment toward operating in a manner which is both ethical and legally sound. We do our best to promote travel throughout South Africa, with a very big focus on SANParks - especially to overseas visitors who are presented with a wealth of different options when visiting SA.

We are very lucky to have SANParks and the park is very lucky to have such a committed following - clear from this forum and from the countless enthusiastic reviews we receive from guests every day - and capable staff like Nedret who ensure that everything is run correctly.

I hope we can continue on a better footing..I look forward to participating in the forum.

Welcome to the forum Oliver,

Now that you confessed, how much do you owe SANPARKS for the pictures your Staff member took.

Thanks Scipio

Good question..what have other online tour operators paid for the pictures they use when selling SANParks products and how are the figures calculated?

We have a meeting in place with SANParks for early December and I have made a note to bring this up at that meeting.

Welcome Oliver,

It pleased me to read your message after all that happened and that you had a chance of reading on this thread.
A lot of us were upset, and some probably still are, of the use that was made of their pictures against standard copyright rules. I am confident you have realised the amount of time, effort and money people have put into their deep love for wildlife and photographs are the foremost sign of this.

Thank you again for your message and I'm confident most formites will appreciate your clarifying the position of KrugerPark.com and Accommodation Direct.

Dear Oliver

Thank you for your post.

There are however still points in my mind that need attention:

If SANParks do not bill you, or any of the other online tour operators for the photos used to promote the parks….I presume they will also not be able to bill us for the photos you unlawfully used for what I suspect, quite a long time (the photos you used were all posted on the forum a couple of years ago). So, if this is the case, we can all bill you for the unlawful use of the photos and make a clean profit? (I still have all the screen shots of this whole debacle)
To be brutally honest, I find it VERY odd that somebody who’s into marketing and web development has no knowledge of copyright issues and believe it is quite ok to just take other’s photos of the web and use it for themselves….in a commercial capacity!!!
In July I contacted you personally, asking you to remove my photos from your various websites….your reply, very politely, was that I should send you links of the pages containing my photos and specify the photos that belong to me…you very kindly removed those ones, but kept the ones that I, and you knew belonged to other people on this forum. Only after SANParks stepped in, did you take down the other photos.

Question: The photos you are currently using with permission of the photographers….did you also inform them about SANPark’s policy stating that they will be liable to pay the relevant fees for commercial use? These people probably thought they are doing SANParks a favour and doing their bit to bring this park to the masses??….Krugerpark.com??? Did you inform them that you are an independent tour agency??? On the 2 occasions your people contacted me on Flickr (in July by AJGrob and now my Muntasir), no such info was given.
And bottom line….I believe that you, as an agent of SANParks, have a duty to keep yourself up to date with the policies of this organization and adhere to them.
If you are the honest guy you sound like….I believe you should give the FULL detail to all these people who’s photos and permission you have sourced from the web and give them a second chance of allowing you to use their photos.

Lastly, I have to say I find it odd that you now, only now, rediscovered the forum….after you built your entire marketing “campaign” with images obtained from this very forum.

Welcome, Oliver!

Just in case you or others took it seriously, Scipio is just joking!

If you take a pic in a SANPARK yourself, you can do what you like with it!

Actually, RP, no you can't! You cannot use ANY photos taken in a SANPark for commercial purposes without (prior) permission and paying substantial fees. (Perhaps you, too, should read this whole thread?)

Have to say im with Jumbo on this one. If all those images were taken off this very forum that has only now been re-discovered??! No man.Something still doesnt add up.Its irrelevant how much time one spends in the park with ones mom or how appreciative one is of the parks or their content.

Bottom line....Images were lifted like plagiarized verbatim text and presented as their own. They were placed on a web-presence for profit( with a very misleading URL) without any credit given to their source nor any payment made to any of the photographers let alone the organization the domain name should technically rightfully belong to. The fact payments are only now being discussed smacks of an underlying attitude of on-going exploitation and a similar unapologetic attitude that existed when the issue first surfaced earlier this year.Very meaningless apology IMHO and I didnt even have any of my images lifted !-----------

Hey Guys,

At least Oliver is here I do understand your indignation, but don't chase him away. He might be able to add the other side to the story and then we can have a "Lekker rol"

Let me tell you, his company is not the only peeps doing this kind of thing and with his input we might get this kind of thing stopped once and for all. I was shopping for a new Camera at a well know Photographic shop last month, and July winner of the photo compitition was one of my pictures.

Oliver, hang in there, maybe we can sort this thing out.