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Sparks I have to agree with you on the Pajero. It is by far the beter choice between the 2 you mentioned Tracylee

The TD5 engine is the one that gave all discovery II landies a bad name. I would stay away from that landy.

If I were to get a second hand defender it would be the one with the 2.8 petrol BMW engine.

Just make sure you get the vehicle tested by the AA before you buy second hand. They will find any real issues that could bite you in the long run. Take your time in deciding and you might get the perfect 4x4 you are looking for.

Sparks and Dr Phil thank you very much for your answers.
We didnt test drive the Landy today and now I dont even feel like going. Okie - my SO is a bit disappointed about that - he would love a Landy ...

But I did drive the Pajero on Sunday - on the tar, not off road yet. In town it did a U turn on a ticky and accelerated up a (tar road) mountain pass just how I like. Will let the men do the off road testing. It is a 2.5 and although old, the motor is still very smooth. We will definitely get it tested by the AA and let our friendly mechanic have a good look before we decide. We want a 4x4 so that we can go to places that we like, like central Kalahari, not specifically to do hectic 4x4 trails. Even so, I should really go on a driving course - it would be lots of fun. So the comfort of that 1000kms on tar is very important (to me at least) And we need to pull a boat.

We have almost decided not to bother further with Hiluxes and Isuzus.

Tracylee, go test drive the Landy. Just to give you a the chance to form an opinion on it.

From what you say, I would also suggest the Pajero.
AA tests are good and will give you a good idea of the condition of the vehicle. Just keep in mind that there are certain things it might not pick up.



Any specific reasons for your decision to exclude these? Hiluxes have a excellent reputation. Personally I have owned 4 Isuzus. Great vehicles, good fuel economy and very comfortable travelling long distances.

I made the mistake of insisting SO take the Pajero for a test drive and get acquainted... now I battle to get a turn myself

Sparks I am afraid it is not only with the Pajero the case. I drive a Ford ranger double cab and SO loves to drive it. I think its being in control of a really big Vehicle. She wants a Hyundai H-1

Dear Doctor Phil, when I grew up I was not understood by my fellow schoolmates, they always made fun of me, what should I tell my son that is in the same situation.

Maybe you make more sense in answering this than posting this:



The TD5 was an awesome motor, better than any Beemer motor. But then again, you might have just accidently changed the models around in you sentences.

One enquiry , 10 different opinions on makes , each one from the owner of a different make ...

Hey Ndloti, I own a Jeep,

Also very nice, good offroad, but needs a bit of mods to got where Landies, Nissan Patrols, Jeep Wrangler and Cruiser 70's can go.

But IMHO, all the new 4x4 are good, but you need to modify most to compare with the 4 vehicles I mentioned just now. I actually drove a Porche Chyenne(Spelling) a few weeks ago, bloody brilliant offroad, but only after about 200 k worth of mods.

It might just be the disco II thing but i have never seen a TD5 disco II that was not smoking so bad that all 5 lanes of the highway had visibility issues. Not to mention that they can't drive over a dry dirt speedbump. Have never been on a club outing with a disco II present and it not going into limp mode. I don't own a TD5 but have been in 3 defenders with the TD5 engine for 6 years during my studies and driving further than 50km with that turbo whine will drive anyone mad.

Perhaps a bit of perspective from someone who's never owned or even driven a 4x4, but been on many 4x4 trails with a range of vehicles (both standard and modified).

All the vehicles mentioned in this thread have their merits, and their negatives. In my friendship group there are Toyota Hiluxes (these will generally go anywhere you want them to - literally point them and shoot), a couple of Jeeps (according to their owners, you don't buy a Jeep, you build them, no matter what age they are), a Nissan (with a huge fear of water until a snorkel resolved that - a puddle was a Problem with a capital P), a Kia Sportage (original model, required the stupid air hubs to be replaced with a manual setup, larger tyres and then it went places way more expensive and complicated vehicles feared to go), a Ford Courier (decent enough), a Mazda (same vehicle as the Courier, just a different badge), and a 19 voetsak Ford F250 (you don't want one of those - trust me on that).

We've also got manual boxes and autoboxes, and again both have their strengths and weaknesses.

But there is one thing everyone who has ever been on a 4x4 trail will agree with, no matter what vehicle they drive. The weakest link in any vehicle is the one behind the steering wheel. The bottom line is that no matter what you have, both in vehicle and add on terms, YOU are going to be the determining factor as to what they vehicle can do, how reliable it will be, how fuel efficient it will be. I've seen hardcore 4x4's with all the toys get stuck because the driver was clueless, and I've seen 2x4's go places they have no right to go because the driver was flipping brilliant.

So my advice to any prospective 4x4 buyer is the following:

1. Decide on a budget
2. See what's available
3. Research those vehicles (most 4x4 manufacturers have clubs with websites)
4. Drive as many as you can
5. Shortlist 2 or 3
6. Drive those again
7. Make a decision
8. Get that vehicle checked out by the AA or similar
9. Buy the vehicle if ok
10. Enjoy it!

EDIT: Sorry about the fontsize...I have no idea why it did that!

Add :

If it has a diesel engine with close to 200 000 km on the clock , put R20 000 in a kitty for repairs .
Same applies if there is no service history .

Orange, the driver does make a huge difference and most 4x4's are good. There are some that I wont touch with a 1000km pole.

I might sound very harsh to the disco II, its just the experience I had. The disco 3 and 4 are much better. But they also go into limp mode.

I would like to add to your list.

11. Decide what you want to use it for. (SUV or Double cab) (Overlanding or just weekend playing)
12. If you are going to use it for overlanding, do research on what extras you might want to add.

You will know when it is the right 4x4 for you. So take your time and make the best decision to suit your needs.

Whats Limp mode,

Orange, I agree, been there, done that with various 4x4 vehicles and it's usually the twit behind the wheel that makes the difference.



Cause you were whispering.

Limp mode is when a landy onboard computer goes mad and thinks that there is something wrong. It then limits the landy to drive only fast enough to drive onto a flatbed to be taken to service centre. There are some forums that have threads on how to reset the comp to get the landy out of limp mode. Last time I saw it was when the gearbox got water on top and some wire got wet. So driving in the rain can get a landy into limp mode. I have never seen defenders go into limp mode though. Only freelanders and disco's.

Oh, sorry Dr. Phil, I thought is was a little button you can push to slow the Landie down so the other 4x4's can keep up.